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Forum > Tuber's secrets > thread

Le Panthéon ! 1
Saturday 11 Feb 2012 12:50
#define GOOD
#define EVIL


does it count 30191? :innocent:
Le Panthéon ! 1
Saturday 11 Feb 2012 13:46
No, content of definition is missing ;-) Your code won't be able to use good and evil 111
Le Panthéon ! 1
Saturday 11 Feb 2012 16:15
I knew you will write that :P But what can be a content of GOOD and EVIL? :P
Le Panthéon ! 1
Saturday 11 Feb 2012 19:43
I don't know exactly which language you are alluding to (I guess "define" exists in many languages), so I regarded it as a mathematical definition, in which you assign certain properties to a word or any expression. (:idee: For example, this was a definition of "definition", assigning the property of assigning properties to something to the word "definition". I am pretty sure that this sentence is grammatically correct.)
So in your definition, GOOD and EVIL simply mean nothing. I think giving them this kind of content is not too hard. 1212
Pyramid level: 2 383
Sunday 12 Feb 2012 01:57
Without good/evil, and rules defining the line between, society would be survival of the fittest. Almost like animals. Is it good to steal from thieves? Is it bad to protect someone to a fault? It all depends on your own moral standards. And that depends on how you are raised and the people around you. Based on the Christian faith, this is how I see it.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (The earth was just raw matter floating around in a liquified state, and He created planets and stars and everything else from that matter.) Then after He created the universe and animals, He created man.
Genesis 1:28-
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, s“Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

So basically, He gave us work to give us some purpose (humans get bored so easily) while thinking thoughts that pleased Him (because the world was still perfect, we didn't know what evil was, or the concept of death. This WAS Paradise). He gave us the earth to care for as our home. He just had one condition. We could not eat from a certain tree. The tree of knowledge of good and evil. And He gave us free will to obey or disobey Him.
C.S. Lewis describes it from a demon's point of view in The Screwtape Letters.
"To us a human is primarily food; our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy demands of men is quite a different thing. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself-- creatures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because he has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct."
That would be the free will. Well, Adam and Eve (the first humans) did eat it, because it looked really good and Satan (in the form of a snake) lied to them and gave them the excuse they had been waiting for. And ever since then, humans have been messing themselves up and destroying the earth. Again, the penalty of sin is death. Before Jesus was born, God gave Moses specific directions for the temple (because no human- heck, no angel can look at Him directly) and the temple was a way for Him to be closer to us, and the death of a perfect animal was a substitute until Jesus died for us. (That's how they got to the Paradise side of Sheol.), and the temple was were you went to sacrifice it. Not only did God give Moses specific directions for the temple, but a government system. For some things, the most huge offenses, no animal was enough of a substitute, and that's why executioners had a job. Why didn't God hit Hitler with a lightning bolt? I'm sure He has His reasons. God is holding judgement back right now. He is capable of and has a right to destroy everything (including us) and start over. We're the ones who messed up, remember? Volcanic soil is the most fertile on earth, but it had lava flowing over it at some point. Kind of harsh for the local vegetation, right? So if God allows us to screw up for some greater good He has in mind, is that unfair? Is that bad? I don't think so. Oh, and according to Revelation, He will judge (and punish) sooner or later. Globally. But He wants as many people as possible to be with Him, and we are supposed to be informing everyone before the Rapture, when His people are taken out of the line of fire because we've asked for and received forgiveness. And since Jesus already paid for the flight, we just have to ask for the ticket and stand in line for all to see. Warning- tomatoes WILL be thrown at you. Try not to step out of line, because unless you are (in line), you will be left behind.
(The latecomers who want to be with Him will be separated from the rest after the end of the world.)
So if all this is true, God is absolutely good. But the God I believe in is a personal God,(not a force) and unless He loves us, why would He send His son to die for us? He cannot stand evil (because perfection has no room for tolerance of evil -no middle ground), but He had mercy on us and provided a way out of the mess we made.
This is what I see. This is what I was raised in. What is your perspective?
1228
Le Panthéon ! 1
Tuesday 14 Feb 2012 00:21
I didn't see any definition of Good and Evil :). Personally I agree with this:
Philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach once published his projection idea - simply put, he says God is a projection of all the good things we want to be. This means that Satan is this kind of projection too, but the opposite of God.
I haven't heard of it before. I like it a lot. The thing is that often (not to say 'always') the difference between Good and Evil (bad) is the point of view. The perspective you have. I was thinking just the other day of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If you talk to people about it, almost everyone will say that this is so terrible, this is so awful. The devastation from the atom bombs... and nobody sees that there is something good about those two bombs. Do you know what would happen if they decided not to drop them? The war in Europe was over, but Japanese people are very proud (you know the Samurai, right) and you have to really crush them to make them surrender. And without the bombs it would take much more time, money and lives to end it. It may be said that it was the lesser evil.

I believe that God is (as in the projection) pure good. But both God's goodness and Satan's evilness are... nothing! They are just words to describe our behavior. We have totally free will to do whatever we want, be that good or evil, and it is us who decide what to do. When we see somebody with a good car it is us who decide if we say "WOW, that's a great car. I would love to have one like that" and start being creative and working a lot to have it. Or we may say "I hate him so much. I'm so jealous of him. How can he have that car and I don't have one" and instead of focusing our energy on receiving what we want - we focus on hatred. It is our decision, nobody is telling us 'be good' or 'be bad' in our ear. Nobody is moving our hands to hit somebody else. We do that. God is the perfect goodness by being there for us and letting us do absolutely everything we want. He is there. He can guide us. But he will never do something for us (like killing Adolph or saving somebody from an earthquake). It is us who have decided not to think for our ourselves and follow him. It is us who have overpopulated Earth and got to that state. So we have to take some responsibility and fix that (if we want).

And by all means - parents should be the same as God. They should never do things instead of their children. You have no idea how bad things we do to them when we think we help them. If we do everything for them - they don't learn to try. If we punish them for doing something (they try something and it turns out bad) they will stop thinking of new ways to have fun and we will kill their creativity. After 7th month the babies should be taught to go to baby-toilet (I don't know how it's called), and after one year they should be walking, instead of pushed around in the baby-cart. Biberons shouldn't be used after about 9th month. And many more. Not to mention school... Here's something about school. Sooo... people are whining why God is not doing anything, but that's the best way to be good. Us, humans, think that we should meddle in everything and make it 'good' by our own standards of 'good'. And that way we ruin everything. It's not God and Satan. It's all us.

One last thing from me.
Pyramid level: 2 383
Tuesday 14 Feb 2012 23:04
The first thing I said was that it depends on perspective.
Without good/evil, and rules defining the line between, society would be survival of the fittest. Almost like animals. Is it good to steal from thieves? Is it bad to protect someone to a fault? It all depends on your own moral standards. And that depends on how you are raised and the people around you.
And for the atom bombs, I have always thought the loss of life was a great tragedy, but a necessary one. It was not a question of which was better, but which was less worse. That was what I consider to be caught between a rock and a hard place. War is necessary sometimes to stop a greater evil.
I take it you have never read the Screwtape letters? In a nutshell, the uncle Screwtape is sending letters to a novice demon charged with securing the damnation of a single man. It is with great strategy on the demon's part that the man believes he is in control, and the demons laugh at his obliviousness. They are very careful not to let him know they are planting ideas that are not his own.
This is a true story, to illustrate.
A man named Bryan Skaggs was going to collage. He felt that God was leading Him (don't ask how, he was speaking to an audience and didn't give that detail) to go to a certain collage, far enough from home that he needed a dorm. He told his father, and his father said that if he was sure that God wanted him to enroll, to enroll. They were in a tight financial budget and couldn't afford a $5,000 fee. He did it anyway, and the last minute deadline was 2 week after moving in. He looked EVERYWHERE for a job, but no one was hiring. He collapsed his boxes ans slid them under his bed, fully expecting to repack them, when his father called. Someone in their church (whom they did not know, and vice- versa) approached his dad and said the Lord had laid it on his heart that he needed this money. The check in the envelope given to Bryan's father held exactly $5,000 dollars.
In this case, the idea to give a complete stranger $5,000 dollars was definitely not the man's own idea. It was God who had spoken to his heart. Demons do just the opposite. They'll give you lots of ideas. How much you'd like to kill someone, for example. Your own thoughts may be 'Oh, how I'd love to give him a punch in the nose!' One step further would be 'I really want to just take him by the the neck and wring an apology out of him!' Or perhaps 'That guy deserves to be shot for what he did.' So if something whispers 'Someone has got to make him pay...' Your next thought may be 'I could do it myself, but...' and if it keeps whispering 'Make him pay, he deserves it' chances are that you will begin to imagine yourself bringing justice, but really you just want to kill him. Once you are accustomed to the image of yourself doing that...

Matthew 5:21-22 + 27 - 28

21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So even thinking of murder is a sin. A small one perhaps...

"You will say that these are very small sins; and doubtless, like all young tempters, you are anxious to be able to report spectacular wickedness. But do remember, the only thing that matters is the extent to which you separate the man from the Enemy. It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts,

Your affectionate uncle

SCREWTAPE "

Of course, just ONE sin defiles perfection, and once you believe that you're okay, Satan is quite happy to leave you alone. He knows where you'll end up. And THEN you take control of your life. He doesn't care about that. He wants your eternal soul. So I guess if you don't believe that, you are in control of your mortal life for the most part. He'll leave you alone because he doesn't exactly want you poking around spiritually. Although it does explain the term 'to sell your soul,' usually for mortal comfort. 'Sold to the lucky buyer...' Guess who?
1228
Pyramid level: 2 383
Friday 24 Feb 2012 22:54
Since this tread appears to be just about dead, here is the Princess and the Frog - Friends on the Other Side that I had mentioned, and lyrics here for non-English speakers. He uses slang, so I edited to make it understandable. First, the link...
(begins with the prince's servant urging him to leave)

Facilier:
Don't you disrespect me little man!
Don't you derogate or deride!
You're in my world now
Not your world
And I got friends on the other side!

Chorus:
He's got friends on the other side...

Facilier:
That's an echo, gentlemen. Just a little something we have here in Louisiana, a little parlor trick. Don't worry...

Sit down at my table
Put your minds at ease
If you relax it will enable me to do anything I please
I can read your future
I can change it around some, too
I'll look deep into your heart and soul
(you do have a soul, don't you, Lawrence?)
Make your wildest dreams come true!

I got voodoo
I got hoodoo
I got things I haven't even tried!
And I got friends on the other side.

Chorus:
He's got friends on the other side!

Facilier:
The cards, the cards, the cards will tell
The past, the present, and the future as well
The cards, the cards, just take three
Take a little trip into your future with me!

Now you, young man, are from across the sea
You come from two long lines of royalty
(I'm a royal myself on my mother's side)
Your lifestyle's high
But your funds are low
You need to marry a little honey whose daddy has money

Mommy and daddy cut you off, huh playboy?
Now you've got to get married, but marriage ties you down.
You just want to be free.
Hop from place to place.

But freedom... takes green!
It's the green, it's the green, it's the green you need
And when I looked into your future
It's the green that I see!

On you little man, I don't want to waste much time
You've been pushed around all your life
You've been pushed around by your mother and your sister and your brother.
And if you were married...
You'd be pushed around by your wife
But in your future, the you I see
Is exactly the man you always wanted to be!

Shake my hand.
Come on boys.
Won't you shake the poor sinner's hand?

Yes...
Are you ready?


Chorus:
Are you ready?

Facilier:
Are you ready?
Transformation central!

Chorus:
Transformation central!

Facilier:
Reformation central!

Chorus:
Reformation central!

Facilier:
Transmogrification central!
Can you feel it?
You're changing
You're changing
You're changing, all right!
I hope you're satisfied
But if you're not
Don't blame me
You can blame my friends on the other side!

Chorus:
You got what you wanted!
But you lost what you had!

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